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 Please balance the Moloch!

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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Please balance the Moloch!   Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:06 am

I'm tired of this fucker killing me instantly, even with lots of medkits in inventory and with huge amounts of health (had 300 before I died), no matter if he uses his dark blasts or fire ground attack, he ALWAYS manages to kill me INSTANTLY!!! Evil or Very Mad 



This death happened at end of MAP27 of Community Chest 4 when he teleported behind me, which ruined my perfect "no death" count on this level. Same monster ruined MAP16 too with same reason, though at that time he used the flame attack. Can his attacks' damage be reduced considerably or decrease his spawn rate? I can't stand how this monster kills you instantly, yet bosses don't? I don't understand what's with the balance of some monsters in this mod but I am able to kill many boss monsters (with aid of good weapons and/or inventory items) without getting too much hurt but the Moloch must ruin it by killing me instantly without any warning! scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:36 am

Well, he is quite rare. It's worth looking at. But also consider the amount of monters spawning on those levels. I havent played the ones you said, but, are there many archviles in those levels? Being a "community chest" I'd think so.

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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:25 am

Community Chest 4 features hundreds of monsters (some maps feature 200-300 monsters) and I've seen the Moloch quite frequently, for example in MAP16 where I died of his flaming ground attack, there were TWO Moloch that were standing on a higher position (not sure how to explain that) but they were standing on ledges and well, while I was able to kill first one without being hurt, the second one had to do the nasty flaming attack when he died, thus I died too, even though I had like 10 medkits in inventory and about 300 health (the weapon I used against them was Quake 4 railgun). That made me really angry. I've seen another one in MAP31 but he was stuck and couldn't move. Twisted Evil 

Right now I'm playing through Jenesis megawad (again on Joke Mode) and haven't encountered one yet. I'm on MAP10. Smile 
I have also noticed there are no more Phoenixes on Joke Mode. Because on classic mode they used to spawn often and now they don't spawn at all. They haven't spawned when I played through CC4 and at that time, I also had the Morph Spell but didn't really used it except for probably 3 shots on zombies and clown heads. silent

Oh and if you look carefully at inventory in the screenshot I posted, there is an AntiChickenator leftover from previous version. It is randomly found alongside Radiation Suits. Was it intentionally included? Because V6 doesn't have anymore chicken morphs as V5 (with exception of a rare Boss that can do morph spell on you, rolling 4 on two dices and if you use morph spell against a voodoo doll)

But yeah, the Moloch is still one of the hardest monsters of the mod (definitely hardest Arch-Vile class monster) since it can kill you instantly without any warning, regardless of having huge amounts of health/armor and medkits in inventory. Evil or Very Mad 
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Garrus
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:43 am

Moloch's only an arch-vile class....? he's so stupidly strong I assumed Cyberdemon! lol
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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:24 am

Yes, he is even stronger than some of the CyberDemon-class monsters. Razz 
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Garrus
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:08 am

Pft,tell me about it I feel the topic creators pain where he died in that screenshot is NOT where you wanna fight a Moloch... Rolling Eyes 
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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:30 pm

Well, he teleported behind me and killed me, as some custom maps spawn monsters behind you. Of course I "face" him at death because that's default Doom behavior of facing the monsters who killed you. Today I fought another Moloch at end of MAP28 of Memento Mori but luckily I had cover, so his projectiles hit wall and I took no damage, even though I had near 500 health and green armor and 25 medkits in inventory and would have probably survived his attack this time. Razz 

Yesterday faced yet another one in MAP23 in a room full of Arch-Viles but luckily I had Pentagram of Protection (since there was one nearby), so I came ready this time. Twisted Evil 
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Garrus
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:37 am

oh yes,when you're READY for him and have some ridiculous late-game weaponary like the VOLCANO LAUNCHER or w/e its called hes cake..
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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:56 pm

Dude, at that time I made screenshot I was late in game and had numerous good weapons (since I play with slot limits off and I think I'm probably the only one who plays with that option turned off) but he just teleported behind me and killed me and I reached conclusion that his projectiles are insta-kill ones and shouldn't do much damage. I can assure you that I'm an experienced player and I'm able to complete a full 32-maps (or even more than 32) megawad with at most 10 deaths, for example currently I'm playing Mayhem 2048, encountered a Moloch few days ago and today another one, had no problems whatsoever with these 2, I managed to kill them without dying and didn't have a great arsenal as I had in other megawads but still I was able to defeat them without much effort, strafing and taking cover. As for deaths, I'm at MAP17 (did secret levels too) and had only 4 deaths so far (in maps 01, 09 and 12) but they came from different monsters and lack of health. I am also probably the only one who doesn't really use inventory items and use them only when I have multiple of them (with exception of dices, these one I use very late in the game) because I probably need later in game, where situation can get tough and an inventory item comes handy. I apologize if I sounded harsh but I'm a very good player and I'm able to pretty much kill any monster in this mod (except DBT of course) and the Moloch isn't the hardest monster ever but can still be annoying when given opportunity. Smile

EDIT: Oops, I just misunderstood your comment. I thought you said "When I'm ready to defeat him", as if I was an inexperienced player. My apologizes. Neutral 
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Garrus
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:33 am

lol,I didn't even see the post before you edited it anyway so whatever no big deal...

that volcano gun doe...-salivates for a second- ...anyway! I like how this thread is somehow very active...but with two people..now we're off course! oh well!
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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:11 am

The only edit I made to comment was to add the last phrase after EDIT. Somehow these days were stressful for me in that I started to misunderstand reading people's comments. Once again I apologize for my misunderstanding and we should forget about that. Razz 

The Volcano Cannon is the Blue & Orange weapon that is dropped by Hellish Oscuro, right? If so, I have found it several times and it's very powerful. Whenever I meet a boss or a very tough monster to beat, I use alt-fire and kills him instantly. I love this weapon, it's one of my favorites. bounce 

And I think this topic can now be locked because I'm sure in next version, the Moloch will be much more balanced. Now there are other monsters that I hate very much, such as Pennywise heads that clip through walls, move fast and deal a lot of damage in seconds, which is impossible to dodge in cramped areas where I fight them most of time. Twisted Evil 
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Garrus
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:58 am

i...im sorry did you say pennywise heads? oh lord...my phobia...(clowns!!) ive never seen those but no thank you!! and yes I was talking about the Blue/Orange reskinned Doom 64 What The Fark Is This Gun that the Hellish oscuro drops
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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:18 am

Yes, it's weapon that gets dropped by Orange Oscuro (still don't know real name of monster), which looks like El Oscuro from ROTT but it's surrounded by flames and it's orange. When he dies, he creates a crater that drops a lot of mana and finally drops the weapon too. Kinda rare but in some slaughter maps, I met him often.Arrow 

Also can this topic get locked please? I don't want to go off-topic but this topic went from discussion about Moloch to discussion about other things. Rolling Eyes
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Garrus
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:06 pm

yeah guess its time to lock Sad unless the overlords dont really care :@
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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:09 am

So it happened again.



Fuck this monster! Seriously, I'm sick of his insta-kill attacks, even if you have huge amounts of health and armor (had 474 HP and about 100 armor and 12 medkits in inventory) and he just teleported in my face and killed me instantly. Why the fuck do I always must die because of this fucker? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound like this, I love AEOD but this just kills balance of game. Even if he killed me once (this time happened on Hadephobia MAP15), I still hate his insta-kill ability. I just hope this monster either gets completely coded from scratch or removed from mod altogether. I'm sorry to the creator of this monster but it's overpowered as hell and NO MONSTER in AEOD has the right to INSTA-KILL me when I'm full of health, armor and medkits in inventory! With exception of bosses of course but even then, they don't insta-kill me right immediately. My recommendations are:

-Remove the monster from mod
-Balance the monster and greatly reduce his attacks
-Move the monster to CyberDemon class and make him match Eidolon's size, so that IT'S ACTUALLY a boss!

I want someone to reply. I'm just not happy with this balance-breaker monster, even if I manage to somehow kill him on second try. Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:06 am

I spawned a few for testing, and it appears to be the circle of flame explosion attack that immediately kills the player. This is the attack that needs to be either removed, or delayed and nerfed significantly. There's rarely an excuse for an instant-damage attack. I was moving at full speed when it just killed me out of nowhere.

That attack where it spreads tiny flames all over the floor is also pretty nasty, but at least it's not an insta-kill.
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Major Cooke
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:12 am

Alright, I'm pulling the ring of flame attack out... I was just witness to about several of these fuckers ganging up on me and I'm quite sick of it myself. It's way too powerful for an archvile monster.

_________________
"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:27 pm

Thanks guys for the acknowledgement. I still want to point out that most of times the dark flame blasts kill me due to their ripper flag.

I only once got killed by its fire ground attack that spawns in circles (most of times he just took a lot of health with this attack) and last time they did the firewave attack (on second try, which was successful try) which took a lot of my health/armor, even though I jumped. So yeah, this monster is pretty much overpowered in all his attacks he does and can easily ruin your perfect "no deaths" run on the level, which happened a couple of times and only very few times I was able to avoid/survive the Moloch's attacks.

Another experience I remember was that I was nearly at end of a level from Interception wad and one Moloch appeared out of nowhere (It was supposedly to be an Arch-Vile that pops out of nowhere in front of player right at exit, one of trick that mappers like to use to surprise player) and I just jumped off ledge to avoid his attacks, went down from 500 health to 97 in a single second when he did dark flame attack but I did survive.

So yeah, this monster definitely needs to have the attacks' damage reduced.
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:37 pm

The kinetic energy spheres you can dodge. It's the unavoidable ring of flaming death that was imbalanced.

_________________
"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:15 pm

True but this "kinetic energy spheres" attack gets me everytime because most of times he appears in a monster closet where it's supposed to teleport monsters when you pick up a key or activate something and right when he teleports, he starts doing attack, thus giving you almost no time to react.

Plus this is his preferred attack and while they can be easily dodged, it's impossible to predict when and where the Moloch will appear or spawn in the custom maps, its low chance still happens sometimes and he is very easily kind of "fuck you" monster that can easily ruin your perfect day by killing you. I'm not kidding, even this attack is overpowered. Like I said, he shouldn't kill you INSTANTLY at full health/armor/medkits. All his attacks have trouble with balancing, so he is the monster that bothers me the most. Here is what I recommend to do:

Step 1: Type give all/give everything in console to get full inventory items, thus getting 25 medkits for 1000 extra health in inventory
Step 2: Give yourself health and armor through console (if 500 health and 500 armor aren't enough, you can even try thousands)
Step 3: Save game in case something goes bad
Step 4: Summon a Moloch
Step 5: Stand in front of him and let him attack/kill you
Step 6: Notice how fast he kills you, even when you have most health and armor possible.

I did already myself all these steps and let me tell you: I wasn't happy with ANY of his attacks, though the firewave attack is probably the least damaging but can still eat most of your health and armor. I think he should have less health or become vulnerable to certain attacks if you intend to keep him because I do not like this monster at all. Every time he kills me, I feel like the game punishes me and FORCES killing me. And no, I don't invent all of these myself, it really happens to me, I think this monster killed me the most but there are other monsters in mod that can also do a lot of damage. The exception is that they won't insta-kill you but the Moloch DOES and PUNISHES the player with a giant "fuck you" to the face. Seriously. Evil or Very Mad 
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ShadowTiger
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:47 pm

What difficulty were you on?

Also, for the record, I ducked while strafing, and his attack when right over me. Hard on the fingers, yes, but I lived to cower another day!!!11!eleventysixteen.
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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:23 pm

UV, which is the difficulty I'm always using. I once used HMP for Kama Sutra and Hell Revealed 2 but I will redo these megawads in the future on UV. I honestly have no idea why I didn't play these on UV, they felt a bit too easy. Though I must say that some megawads can become too easy/too hard, depending on circumstances. Rolling Eyes 

Anyway since I made the last complaining comment, I haven't met any other Moloch yet but I have a feeling I will meet another one soon. I wasn't thinking to crouch because as far as I remember, the attack hits ground since the Moloch is a tall monster. Neutral 
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:46 pm

Again, you can dodge any/all other attacks, this one instant kill flaming one was a problem. He is a rare monster after all.

_________________
"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
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FistMarine
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:48 pm

Hmm, OK then. Considering that yesterday I met another one but this time I came prepared by using a Pentagram because I didn't want another bullshit death, especially since it was MAP28 and I often die on this map in most megawads, though this time I survived. Cool 

One thing I want to clarify to what I said above is that since he is tall, he can aim and shoot on the ground, so it kinda makes crouching useless due to splash damage of projectiles I believe, though I still haven't tried that. Neutral 
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PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:41 pm

I rather leave him where he is now, at least I really don't want his flamethrower get nerfed at all nor he lose any of his abilities. Flamethrower is quite low range, I'd honestly even increase some flamethrower range far futher for him. Some enemies are just supposed to be deadly, deal with it. And this one is quite easy IMHO, you just have to keep range and dodge his attacks and he is becomes quite easy to deal with. You have to play smart and not just rush to enemy like reckless idiot in a hope it will die just because you're 2brave. To be honest, I got really tired of all those flamethrower whines that die by it and thus instantly butthurt about it almost in any video game only because they though rush in to the flame was a good idea and not try to avoid it or even better - keep the range.

I don't really want the whole mod turn to halo\cod wannabes that choose for themselves to have only crappy weapons and have weapons limitation for realism, then bitch about monsters being too strong only because they themselves been bad. Speaking of "varied". I rather enemies have lots of diffirent attacks and unique skills and get even new one skills/attack with time of development, rather than they lose some of those attacks with time. Razz
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