AEons of Death

Forum to the ZDoom Mod AEoD / AEons of Death by DBThanatos
 
HomeFAQSearchRegisterLog in
Latest topics
» super shotgun causes GZDoom to crash
Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:57 pm by Major Cooke

» Nothing visible
Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:27 am by Thefunny711

» [Fixed] Weapons no longer drop
Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:28 pm by Michaelis

» [Closed] v1.01.5 Not starting
Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:24 pm by Michaelis

» Read me. Unfixable bugs.
Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:40 pm by Major Cooke

» [Can't fix] Weapon Upgrade Menu does not freeze reloading.
Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:29 pm by Major Cooke

» Is it playable for d-touch
Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:15 pm by Michaelis

» [Fixed] a Bug and some of my thoughts
Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:20 am by DBThanatos

» About using stuff from the MOD
Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:14 am by Minuk

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Who is online?
In total there is 1 user online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 1 Guest

None

Most users ever online was 65 on Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:47 am

Share | 
 

 Please balance the Moloch!

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3
AuthorMessage
Garrus
Spectre
Spectre


Posts : 112
Join date : 2011-01-24
Age : 28
Location : west virginia

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:32 pm

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
Major Cooke wrote:
Oh? And I suppose this also counts for maps which map makers just happen to force someone out in the open with little to no cover?

We balance for times when there is slaughterfests, and times when there aren't. We achieve for around the middle, cover and no cover.

Just because it feels too much bunnyland for you doesn't make it bun buns for others you know.

If the maps are horrible balanced, they are horrible balanced regardless if it is used aeod or not.

If there is slaughterfest, that means you already have overpowered weapons to dead with even more deadlier enemies than pitiful moloch. Maps that implies there will be lots of arcvhiles around or archviles in open area, usually have BFG9000 before facing them.

I only mention "avoid by jumping" because it clearly works as an exploit which makes it almost effortless way to make it do really low damage. It's still easy to dodge by just cover around the corner, or even by runing away from it once he fires that. That was an definitelly an awesome attack that deserves it's attention for a player to try to avoid it not just WASD.

Oh also, there lots of chaingunners around, especially in non-official by map makers that tend to use LOTS of themm everywhere, and chaingunners are tend to be hitscan, means to possible way to dodge them, and there been lots of chaingunners in maps whose makers decide to not add corners at all, implies you can't dodge. And as far I experienced, the AEOD's replacement for chaingunners are FAR more deadlier than original doom 2 ones. I guess we should remove all their chainguns, miniguns and magic attacks as well...

I will give you that, AOED's chaingunner replacements can be pretty deadly! but they typically dont have a lot of health so if you're careful or have a sniping weapon just pick em off, or..well the raven staff can be quite the nasty little room clearer for situations like that lol.
Back to top Go down
MaxRideWizardLord
Zombieman
Zombieman


Posts : 28
Join date : 2015-04-08

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:40 pm

Garrus wrote:
MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
Major Cooke wrote:
Excuse me, but who are you to say balance isn't an excuse? You don't get massive weapons just at the start of map one you know.

It's annoying as hell, and makes the game very agitating to play whenever encountering a moloch. And for the record, you could fly and then land, when a ring would explode around you.

The balance is merely subjective judgement, I never found Moloch any annoying, ring wasn't a problem to me. Moloch is rare enemy, plus replacement of rare Arch-Vile. Untill you face actual Arch-Vile in doom 2, you would already have BFG9000 anyway. If anything, I'd say Moloch was quite balanced with ring.

Just like Arch-Vile in 1994 year, when mouse never was used to aim with, arch-vile was deadly enemy that you should not ever fight in open area, that often to be more deadly and irritating than cyberdemon, so does Moloch is. Ring is easy getting avoided by getting behind corner, that is one of those enemies that you should fight tactically, not just rush mindlessly. if you prefer action gameplay, your best bet to get overpowered weapons. If you have crappy guns and there is still moloch, hide and keep shoting him then hide again, within 6 seconds of fire of same weak SMG he will fall anyway if you aim well. If he gets spawned and it's open area with no corners to hide, then you gotta use save and load often and eventually beat him, you could avoid his most powerful attack this way, after all the doom games supposed to be challenging and you were supposed to use save and load ALL the times back in time. If you getting own'd anyway, well you shouldn't choose the difficult difficulty then and play on easy.

Again, remove something is merely a cheap way to solve a problem, that won't "balance" it either, but just make it easy for nawbs. In order to achieve "perfect balance", you would need to remove completely everything, leaving the only main hero with pistol, and some npc with same speed, and same pistol as the player, but that won't be fun anymore...

I have come back from the grave to say, you shouldn't have to spam reloads of the game to beat a damn arch-vile class enemy, for fucks sake the Arch-Vile himself is a fucking pansy who goes down in 3-4 SSG blasts or you just whip the RLauncher out and waste his butt, the moloch was bulllshiiiiiit with that damn ring of fire move good riddance to that shit! Do you realize what a nightmare that Plutonia Map with the arch-vile maze is thanks to him? HORRIBLE...you can bitch all you want about this and that but I for one am glad his bs instakill shit is gone, not many monsters in AOED have that and the ones that do...are usually bosses..

Plutonia's arcvhile maze has corners, you could easily hide behind one, lure out, shot, hide, reload, lure out, shot, hide, repeat. Same thing you could do with fire. Arch-Vile is neither an pansy monster in doom at all. Again, because in 1994 barely anyone ever use mouse, killing him was really hard, given his really high pain chance, he almost always hit you unless you do not cover often. This was challenging still. FYI, I have not complained about here, just eleborate my discontent and explained my views and opinion about the subject, but by the way you behaving and the way your argumenting, technically you're the one complaining here about that attacks... Again, Moloch is no problem if you play smart. If you want slaughterfest, just write cheats and go on rampage. It's not like AEOD is any balanced on custom made mappacks, such as mock 2...

Garrus wrote:
MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
Major Cooke wrote:
Oh? And I suppose this also counts for maps which map makers just happen to force someone out in the open with little to no cover?

We balance for times when there is slaughterfests, and times when there aren't. We achieve for around the middle, cover and no cover.

Just because it feels too much bunnyland for you doesn't make it bun buns for others you know.

If the maps are horrible balanced, they are horrible balanced regardless if it is used aeod or not.

If there is slaughterfest, that means you already have overpowered weapons to dead with even more deadlier enemies than pitiful moloch. Maps that implies there will be lots of arcvhiles around or archviles in open area, usually have BFG9000 before facing them.

I only mention "avoid by jumping" because it clearly works as an exploit which makes it almost effortless way to make it do really low damage. It's still easy to dodge by just cover around the corner, or even by runing away from it once he fires that. That was an definitelly an awesome attack that deserves it's attention for a player to try to avoid it not just WASD.

Oh also, there lots of chaingunners around, especially in non-official by map makers that tend to use LOTS of themm everywhere, and chaingunners are tend to be hitscan, means to possible way to dodge them, and there been lots of chaingunners in maps whose makers decide to not add corners at all, implies you can't dodge. And as far I experienced, the AEOD's replacement for chaingunners are FAR more deadlier than original doom 2 ones. I guess we should remove all their chainguns, miniguns and magic attacks as well...

I will give you that, AOED's chaingunner replacements can be pretty deadly! but they typically dont have a lot of health so if you're careful or have a sniping weapon just pick em off, or..well the raven staff can be quite the nasty little room clearer for situations like that lol.

it takes me like 5 seconds of fire from 4th slot any of miniguns to kill moloch, those miniguns are not rare at all. It takes me far longer to kill archvile with SSG, and even then, arcvhile often doesn't even feel pain, thus I get wrecked due SSG long reload. Again, in my philosophy I rather have lots of overpowered new weapons to balance the overpowered enemies, than enemies become an generic stationary projectile spamming banal bag meat targets...


Last edited by MaxRideWizardLord on Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Garrus
Spectre
Spectre


Posts : 112
Join date : 2011-01-24
Age : 28
Location : west virginia

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:44 pm

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
Garrus wrote:
MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
Major Cooke wrote:
Excuse me, but who are you to say balance isn't an excuse? You don't get massive weapons just at the start of map one you know.

It's annoying as hell, and makes the game very agitating to play whenever encountering a moloch. And for the record, you could fly and then land, when a ring would explode around you.

The balance is merely subjective judgement, I never found Moloch any annoying, ring wasn't a problem to me. Moloch is rare enemy, plus replacement of rare Arch-Vile. Untill you face actual Arch-Vile in doom 2, you would already have BFG9000 anyway. If anything, I'd say Moloch was quite balanced with ring.

Just like Arch-Vile in 1994 year, when mouse never was used to aim with, arch-vile was deadly enemy that you should not ever fight in open area, that often to be more deadly and irritating than cyberdemon, so does Moloch is. Ring is easy getting avoided by getting behind corner, that is one of those enemies that you should fight tactically, not just rush mindlessly. if you prefer action gameplay, your best bet to get overpowered weapons. If you have crappy guns and there is still moloch, hide and keep shoting him then hide again, within 6 seconds of fire of same weak SMG he will fall anyway if you aim well. If he gets spawned and it's open area with no corners to hide, then you gotta use save and load often and eventually beat him, you could avoid his most powerful attack this way, after all the doom games supposed to be challenging and you were supposed to use save and load ALL the times back in time. If you getting own'd anyway, well you shouldn't choose the difficult difficulty then and play on easy.

Again, remove something is merely a cheap way to solve a problem, that won't "balance" it either, but just make it easy for nawbs. In order to achieve "perfect balance", you would need to remove completely everything, leaving the only main hero with pistol, and some npc with same speed, and same pistol as the player, but that won't be fun anymore...

I have come back from the grave to say, you shouldn't have to spam reloads of the game to beat a damn arch-vile class enemy, for fucks sake the Arch-Vile himself is a fucking pansy who goes down in 3-4 SSG blasts or you just whip the RLauncher out and waste his butt, the moloch was bulllshiiiiiit with that damn ring of fire move good riddance to that shit! Do you realize what a nightmare that Plutonia Map with the arch-vile maze is thanks to him? HORRIBLE...you can bitch all you want about this and that but I for one am glad his bs instakill shit is gone, not many monsters in AOED have that and the ones that do...are usually bosses..

Plutonia's arcvhile maze has corners, you could easily hide behind one, lure out, shot, hide, reload, lure out, shot, hide, repeat. Same thing you could do with fire. Arch-Vile is neither an pansy monster in doom at all. Again, because in 1994 barely anyone ever use mouse, killing him was really hard, given his really high pain chance, he almost always hit you unless you do not cover often. This was challenging still. FYI, I have not complained about here, just eleborate my discontent and explained my views and opinion about the subject, but by the way you behaving and the way your argumenting, technically you're the one complaining here about that attacks... Again, Moloch is no problem if you play smart. If you want slaughterfest, just write cheats and go on rampage. It's not like AEOD is any balanced on custom made mappacks, such as mock 2...

apologies if I came off as argumentative, I don't wish to start no "fight"..on a forum of all things, especially a forum of fellow Doomers! I suppose I have nothing else to say on this matter, agree to disagree?
Back to top Go down
MaxRideWizardLord
Zombieman
Zombieman


Posts : 28
Join date : 2015-04-08

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:49 pm

Garrus wrote:
MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
Garrus wrote:
MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
Major Cooke wrote:
Excuse me, but who are you to say balance isn't an excuse? You don't get massive weapons just at the start of map one you know.

It's annoying as hell, and makes the game very agitating to play whenever encountering a moloch. And for the record, you could fly and then land, when a ring would explode around you.

The balance is merely subjective judgement, I never found Moloch any annoying, ring wasn't a problem to me. Moloch is rare enemy, plus replacement of rare Arch-Vile. Untill you face actual Arch-Vile in doom 2, you would already have BFG9000 anyway. If anything, I'd say Moloch was quite balanced with ring.

Just like Arch-Vile in 1994 year, when mouse never was used to aim with, arch-vile was deadly enemy that you should not ever fight in open area, that often to be more deadly and irritating than cyberdemon, so does Moloch is. Ring is easy getting avoided by getting behind corner, that is one of those enemies that you should fight tactically, not just rush mindlessly. if you prefer action gameplay, your best bet to get overpowered weapons. If you have crappy guns and there is still moloch, hide and keep shoting him then hide again, within 6 seconds of fire of same weak SMG he will fall anyway if you aim well. If he gets spawned and it's open area with no corners to hide, then you gotta use save and load often and eventually beat him, you could avoid his most powerful attack this way, after all the doom games supposed to be challenging and you were supposed to use save and load ALL the times back in time. If you getting own'd anyway, well you shouldn't choose the difficult difficulty then and play on easy.

Again, remove something is merely a cheap way to solve a problem, that won't "balance" it either, but just make it easy for nawbs. In order to achieve "perfect balance", you would need to remove completely everything, leaving the only main hero with pistol, and some npc with same speed, and same pistol as the player, but that won't be fun anymore...

I have come back from the grave to say, you shouldn't have to spam reloads of the game to beat a damn arch-vile class enemy, for fucks sake the Arch-Vile himself is a fucking pansy who goes down in 3-4 SSG blasts or you just whip the RLauncher out and waste his butt, the moloch was bulllshiiiiiit with that damn ring of fire move good riddance to that shit! Do you realize what a nightmare that Plutonia Map with the arch-vile maze is thanks to him? HORRIBLE...you can bitch all you want about this and that but I for one am glad his bs instakill shit is gone, not many monsters in AOED have that and the ones that do...are usually bosses..

Plutonia's arcvhile maze has corners, you could easily hide behind one, lure out, shot, hide, reload, lure out, shot, hide, repeat. Same thing you could do with fire. Arch-Vile is neither an pansy monster in doom at all. Again, because in 1994 barely anyone ever use mouse, killing him was really hard, given his really high pain chance, he almost always hit you unless you do not cover often. This was challenging still. FYI, I have not complained about here, just eleborate my discontent and explained my views and opinion about the subject, but by the way you behaving and the way your argumenting, technically you're the one complaining here about that attacks... Again, Moloch is no problem if you play smart. If you want slaughterfest, just write cheats and go on rampage. It's not like AEOD is any balanced on custom made mappacks, such as mock 2...

apologies if I came off as argumentative, I don't wish to start no "fight"..on a forum of all things, especially a forum of fellow Doomers! I suppose I have nothing else to say on this matter, agree to disagree?  

eh... whatever...
Back to top Go down
Major Cooke
Developer
Developer


Posts : 5085
Join date : 2009-04-28
Location : Banana land.

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:00 pm

Stop quote pyramiding please.

_________________
"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
Back to top Go down
http://majorcooke.deviantart.com
DBThanatos
Developer
Developer


Posts : 4018
Join date : 2008-09-03
Location : Beyond the unholy grave; Altering the future.

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:05 pm

Well, all I can say, what's done is done. You cant please everyone. And it seems that MaxRideWizardLord is rather unhappy with the current state of AEoD, so im not too surprised he didnt like that move.

_________________

DBT AKA "Jesus the pimp" - Major Cooke
"02:37 p.m. - DBThanatos runs around like a little girl"
"Because now, all you see in AEoD was either ripped, processed and/or coded by the AEoD team (or direct contributions FOR AEoD). It might be a ripfest, but is OUR ripfest." -DBT about AEoD v6
"Seven sixteenths of one inch: That's the distance you'd have to move your pinky in order to not sound like an idiot." - maddox
"What I talk about is Doom, because in the end, Doom is all that counts." - Stephen King
"In offline gaming we trust" -DBT & MC


Spoiler:
 
Back to top Go down
Major Cooke
Developer
Developer


Posts : 5085
Join date : 2009-04-28
Location : Banana land.

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:07 pm

Yeah. It's just like all the guys who still miss the realm bestiary monsters, they refuse to play 6.x because of it.

_________________
"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
Back to top Go down
http://majorcooke.deviantart.com
MaxRideWizardLord
Zombieman
Zombieman


Posts : 28
Join date : 2015-04-08

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:27 pm

DBThanatos wrote:
Well, all I can say, what's done is done. You cant please everyone. And it seems that MaxRideWizardLord is rather unhappy with the current state of AEoD, so im not too surprised he didnt like that move.

I still believe that remove something is really low, cheap and lazy way to solve anything. From what I see, the fire ring itself wasn't that poweful, so why not just rollback to previous balance, or at least buff the previously balanced ring some so it won't be so worthless, but NOT a freaking removing it??

And in all honesty, I'd like some compensation for that. The fire breath is really worthless, the fire is so tiny, it is quite slow enough for it to be very easy to avoid and the range of breath is so short, it's laughtable. I'd like at least increase of it's range.
Back to top Go down
Major Cooke
Developer
Developer


Posts : 5085
Join date : 2009-04-28
Location : Banana land.

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:28 pm

Now you're just nitpicking.

_________________
"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
Back to top Go down
http://majorcooke.deviantart.com
MaxRideWizardLord
Zombieman
Zombieman


Posts : 28
Join date : 2015-04-08

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:39 pm

Major Cooke wrote:
Now you're just nitpicking.

For one's it maybe nitpicking, for me it is not. If not AEOD 3.01, I wouldn't even be in doom, and discover awesome mods such as skultlag, which was my the first port I launch my mod, which was AEOD 3.01.

I may be clingy to the project, but is it because I want it to be pefect, or at least good, and it cannot be ever achieved if most awesome elements which makes this mod unique and deep just gets blatantly removed.
Back to top Go down
Major Cooke
Developer
Developer


Posts : 5085
Join date : 2009-04-28
Location : Banana land.

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:40 pm

Hence you are nitpicking, because you want it to be perfect. And we will never be able to satisfy that for everyone, such as yourself.

_________________
"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
Back to top Go down
http://majorcooke.deviantart.com
Garrus
Spectre
Spectre


Posts : 112
Join date : 2011-01-24
Age : 28
Location : west virginia

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:46 pm

Yeah, that's just how shit goes, can't please everyone.
Back to top Go down
MaxRideWizardLord
Zombieman
Zombieman


Posts : 28
Join date : 2015-04-08

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:57 pm

Major Cooke wrote:
Hence you are nitpicking, because you want it to be perfect. And we will never be able to satisfy that for everyone, such as yourself.

Hence there is at least freedom of speech, and democracy, at some sort view. How is this a problem for everyone if instead of completely remove something, we at least try to make it be balanced?? Fire ring still be here, but less serious. Still, better than nothing, and NPC still will have it's attack along with him.

Then again, even fistmarine agree that fire breath is a joke.
Back to top Go down
Major Cooke
Developer
Developer


Posts : 5085
Join date : 2009-04-28
Location : Banana land.

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:59 pm

I think his KES attack is all he'll ever need along with his fire breath. It might be easy enough to dodge, but one of those alone is enough to kill you.

And what DBT said, what's done is done.

_________________
"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
Back to top Go down
http://majorcooke.deviantart.com
Garrus
Spectre
Spectre


Posts : 112
Join date : 2011-01-24
Age : 28
Location : west virginia

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:00 pm

Right, he's still a threatening enemy. Especially if you find one in a room fulla mobs Razz
Back to top Go down
MaxRideWizardLord
Zombieman
Zombieman


Posts : 28
Join date : 2015-04-08

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:58 pm

Major Cooke wrote:
I think his KES attack is all he'll ever need along with his fire breath. It might be easy enough to dodge, but one of those alone is enough to kill you.

With only KES attack and fire breath, he'll gets absolutely worthless and won't worth arch-vile replacement at all. Maximum he could become a poor mancubus replacement, or at least baron of hell (if hp got some buff). People seems mistreat arch-vile great times, or at least his brother Diabloist that was once got as replacement, that guy couldn't ever miss you with his instant fire aimbot placement.

I'd at least like Moloch as Cyber replacement, maybe a bit bigger, with more hp, but at least with all attacks along with him, without nerf. This way, he atleast won't be generic stationaric projectile shoting target.

Major Cooke wrote:
And what DBT said, what's done is done.

If such dogma really worked, there be no world, as people wouldn't ever try to fix their mistakes and all the bads that have they done to world... Then again, there is always freedom for discussions, hence the forums are for!
Back to top Go down
Major Cooke
Developer
Developer


Posts : 5085
Join date : 2009-04-28
Location : Banana land.

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:00 pm

I think I posted my point a while back, what's done is done. And whether DBThanatos changes it back or not, it's his decision but I'm going to turn my eyes away from this thread because you're really starting to annoy me with so much pushing.

_________________
"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
Back to top Go down
http://majorcooke.deviantart.com
MaxRideWizardLord
Zombieman
Zombieman


Posts : 28
Join date : 2015-04-08

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:32 pm

Major Cooke wrote:
I think I posted my point a while back, what's done is done. And whether DBThanatos changes it back or not, it's his decision but I'm going to turn my eyes away from this thread because you're really starting to annoy me with so much pushing.

I have never pushed anyone, just keep supporting my own opinion and give counter arguments. if you get annoyed by someone's opinion and their objective arguments and their subjective expression of personal experience with this monster, then I'm sorry, the only person you can blame is yourself, but all humans do get annoyed when someone dare to debate their own opinion. The whole point of forum is to have people express their own opinion on topic and say what they feel and think about it. Simple continue saying "what's done is done" is like saying "We done what we like to do, you have absolutely no rights to say your opinion because we not tolerate nonconformity", and people usually repeat same thing when they are out of arguments.

I really do not understand why forum, and "general talk" page would even exist here then, if the philosophy of mod is mere "do as thou will" and mere ignore/get annoyed by dissent arguments and opinions... What is the point of the discussion if at the end of the day you will just get "what done is done" and do not even have the option to express a opinion about it??

I doubt there ever be a change to that monster if the people didn't start the complain about it's attack to begin with. So why I can't have counter argument here, only because it contradicts with your personal preferences?? It's alright to have diffirent personal preferences, but why you forcing merely accept it and obey it, why not let me eleborate my own opinion about it?? IMHO that is true definition of pushing... I bet lots of people would actually like the "balanced" version of ring, even if it won't be any powerful compared to what it was, simple silence all other opinions is a method of fascism... So all I do is trying to continue the topic being open, just it to keep it for discussion for all sides.

Sure, one is getting annoyed, once he witness opinion of another person that contradict with his own, but that is very obvious nature of selfish humanity and their psychology, there is nothing we can do about it. Usually when one start debate, it mostly grow in to an ego war, but I at least try to keep it objective, keep the attention to subject rather than ad hominem and whatnot...
Back to top Go down
Garrus
Spectre
Spectre


Posts : 112
Join date : 2011-01-24
Age : 28
Location : west virginia

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:18 am

Cheese
Back to top Go down
Major Cooke
Developer
Developer


Posts : 5085
Join date : 2009-04-28
Location : Banana land.

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:11 am

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
I have never pushed anyone, just keep supporting my own opinion and give counter arguments. if you get annoyed by someone's opinion and their objective arguments and their subjective expression of personal experience with this monster, then I'm sorry, the only person you can blame is yourself, but all humans do get annoyed when someone dare to debate their own opinion. The whole point of forum is to have people express their own opinion on topic and say what they feel and think about it. Simple continue saying "what's done is done" is like saying "We done what we like to do, you have absolutely no rights to say your opinion because we not tolerate nonconformity", and people usually repeat same thing when they are out of arguments.

Because I've already said why I'm not going to change the moloch back. This is why I'm leaving this thread now. You can pilfer and plunder it all you like but I won't give a damn anymore.

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
I really do not understand why forum, and "general talk" page would even exist here then, if the philosophy of mod is mere "do as thou will" and mere ignore/get annoyed by dissent arguments and opinions... What is the point of the discussion if at the end of the day you will just get "what done is done" and do not even have the option to express a opinion about it??

I didn't lock the thread now, did I? I only said I'm leaving it because talking about the moloch and listening to you complaining about the removal of his attack is getting old.

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
I doubt there ever be a change to that monster if the people didn't start the complain about it's attack to begin with. So why I can't have counter argument here, only because it contradicts with your personal preferences?? It's alright to have diffirent personal preferences, but why you forcing merely accept it and obey it, why not let me eleborate my own opinion about it?? IMHO that is true definition of pushing... I bet lots of people would actually like the "balanced" version of ring, even if it won't be any powerful compared to what it was, simple silence all other opinions is a method of fascism... So all I do is trying to continue the topic being open, just it to keep it for discussion for all sides.

I didn't try to quash your opinion. To do that, I would've deleted the thread. You've presented an opinion... Over and over and over again, which I have said, no, I don't believe that's fair to the mod. You think it's too weak without the ring of fire? Tough luck. I'm a developer of the mod, you're not, so unless DBThanatos has objections, what I put into the mod is what I think is fair.

We're open to READING and LISTENING to opinions, suggestions, ideas, and objections. But you must understand, we're not always open to accepting them.

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
Sure, one is getting annoyed, once he witness opinion of another person that contradict with his own, but that is very obvious nature of selfish humanity and their psychology, there is nothing we can do about it. Usually when one start debate, it mostly grow in to an ego war, but I at least try to keep it objective, keep the attention to subject rather than ad hominem and whatnot...

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:
ego

You're wrong.

This isn't a matter of ego, it's about tiresome repetition you keep talking. You say the same thing over and over. You see, I'm being just that: the better man. How? By turning a blind eye as this discussion is turning into something droll. Dry. Boring. If I wanted to be a dictator about it, I would've thrown this thread out the window from the start. Again, I am only leaving the thread, by turning a blind eye to the discussion. Keep talking about the moloch all you want, I don't care. I'm just not going to take any more suggestions on it unless it's truly imbalanced. You insist, and insist, and insist, when I've said no, and DBThanatos has as well.

The issue that's happening here now is, max, you're having trouble accepting my judgment on why I removed the ring of fire. That's fine, I don't mind you voicing it, but when you do it multiple times in a row it's hard to take you seriously. But now you're banging on and on, trying to beat this dead horse until it runs out of fun. Apparently it's still 'fun' for you to keep beating it, but trying to have us continue beating it after it's lost its fun is showing just how hard it is for you to accept no as an answer.

The only one whose having a problem now is you, and you refuse to acknowledge it.

_________________
"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
Back to top Go down
http://majorcooke.deviantart.com
Michaelis
Developer
Developer


Posts : 829
Join date : 2011-08-25
Location : Ukruh d' Nor

PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:27 pm

I'm so late to the party that I'm not even sure I should be posting here.
But, hey, since we're talking about "own opinions", "option to express" and such, and since this thread isn't locked by now...

In my humble opinion, this thread deserves to be locked for a couple of pages by now already.
It's simply not generating anything new. I'm gonna repeat what Major Cooke said: after you, MaxRideWizardLord, stated your opinion, you restated it an almost obscene number of times. "Carthago delenda est"? You said "his ring of fire was cool", they said "no it was too hot", and then this loop went into iterations.

But since you're straying so far into off-topic as to state that this forum isn't democratic enough for you...

No Doom mod was ever advertised as democratic. Doom itself wasn't to begin with.
No amount of public demand ever changed anything in this area.
Nobody ever cared for demands. It's polite to ignore them, it's OK to delete them. But you didn't demand anything by now, did you?
Opinions, on the other hand, are what you consider you're voicing here. Opinions can be considered, can be discarded. Be absolutely sure: on this forum, every opinion is considered. No opinion is discarded without being given a thought.
However, if your opinion doesn't go well with the opinion of mod's creator, there's little you can do without getting a formal warning. You can restate or reformulate your opinion--just in case they misunderstood you. You did this. In my eye, you did this an unreasonable number of times, but this is just, hey, my own personal opinion, you're as free to ignore it as anyone else is free to ignore anyone else's own opinion.

I myself had opinions about this mod's contents that were accepted. I had many many more opinions that were rejected.
I'll restate some of them once again some other day and maybe other devs will reconsider Smile
And if they won't, the only thing I can do is... deal with it. (Or maybe make a mod to a mod and release it separately, under my own name, crediting the original or even requiring the original one to work. People are doing this all the time. They take a kick-ass mod with cool resources and make a mod to this mod, crediting the original creators and doing whatever they want. I've seen something specially for AEoD's L4D mode along these lines. Unfortunately, I don't remember the name Sad )

So if you're not enthusiastic about evolving this thread into a proper ad hominem shitstorm and getting a proper warning, I'd suggest you try out 6.06 and come up with some new opinions about the forefront of AEoD, not some old version that some people might or might not like.
Be sure that we all will listen to everything new you will post about 6.06!

tl;dr Your opinion is truly valuable for us even if we don't change mod because of it, and so it goes since forever in the world.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Please balance the Moloch!   

Back to top Go down
 
Please balance the Moloch!
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
AEons of Death :: Public :: General Talk-
Jump to: