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 Diablo3 open beta

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Findus
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PostSubject: Re: Diablo3 open beta   Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:45 am

Actually like I said before they have always said that the game is more than anything else multiplayer coop online. D2 was from the beginning mostly a singleplayer game but over the years it evolved into an online multiplayer game on the ladders. Because it was on the ladders where you had to be online they could stop the most hacking and cheating, also in a game where you run around collecting gear its much about actually being able to show it to people and there also was a way to instantly chat with all your friends. Thats why 95% of all people played d2 as an online multiplayer game in the later years. The game just was best that way for most people. Given that it was the online d2 community which actually made d2 last 12 years, its really no wonder that they viewed d3 as an online game when they released it now.

Blizzard took that online concept of d2 and improved upon it greatly. Adding a auction house, rmah, better control of hackers, botters, dupers, exploiters and so on. They also saved your characters online which meant that if your computer dies you do not lose anything. There is also much less installed stuff on your computer since all thats needed to run the servers and the ai of the monsters and such are actually on blizzards servers not on your computer. To top this off you basically need 100kb connections from the last century to be able to play it online.

If you started off playing offline in d2 what would often happen was that you later on changed your mind and wanted to go online with your char. Since ladder had to be better protected than open you had to either reroll a char on ladder or go open. If you went open you often ended up meeting hackers who oneshot you with cheated gear and there were absolutely no stable economy what so ever. This made d2 look bad for some people. If you had to reroll that would also of course be a let down. This is another reason as to why they added online only from the start, just so everyone could play together if they wanted no matter what.

These things only work if there is a closed enviroment controlled by blizzard and since already 95% of the old d2 players played in such an enviroment this wasnt such a big leap.

Ex: The auction house would not work if there are dupers, glitchers and hackers out there so if you are playing offline that wont work. You also can never go online in a battlenet system with your char that has been offline because it can easily have been illegaly cheater or hacked.

Given all these things most players are going to be online from the very start anyway. This is why blizzard went with d3 being only online so that they could invest in the game which actually kept d2 going for years.

Now you could say that you miss singleplayer offline and that since blizzard controls the servers they could shut it down at any point. You cant do anything about it. You would be right, but what you are missing is that if they did then they would instantly lose an immense amount of money from future customers which would lose respect and trust in them. This means that blizzard has an invested interest in keeping the servers up for as long as possible with as good standards as possible. Also since the d2 servers where up and running basically without problems for 10 years, even though blizzard made little from it there is little risk of them suddenly pulling the plug.

Now if you dont see the actual pros of having an game only online then you cannot really argue with anyone about it, because they are clearly there. Yes there are cons, I didnt go through them because clearly you seem to know about them. What you have to do when you buy the game is weigth the cons with the pros, if the pros are more than the cons then you buy the game.

In your case the cons of the drm obviously outweigh the pros of everything else. But in other peoples cases this might not be so. I cannot understand how you are unable to see this and infact say that you are for destroying the game if possible just because you are so dead set against any drm, even though it would ruin other peoples experience with a game they bought. Just go buy torchlight and play a offline version of d3 and chill. If you dont like drm games, dont buy them. That in itself gives motivation to the corporations with drm to stop with it and go offline mode and thats really the only thing you can do about it because other people are free to make thier own choices.

As for the complaints on the graphics sad you feel that way, because it seems most people think its a wast improvement. There havent really been much complaints about it since the alpha of the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablo3 open beta   Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:07 am

Findus wrote:
Now you could say that you miss singleplayer offline and that since blizzard controls the servers they could shut it down at any point. You cant do anything about it. You would be right, but what you are missing is that if they did then they would instantly lose an immense amount of money from future customers which would lose respect and trust in them.

DING DING RING THE CASH BELLS BABY!

Hence why we think Blizzard can go fuck themselves.

A note on this, they would lose FAR LESS customers if they were to go offline with their single players than holding a DRM to it. TRUST me. If it was available, DBThanatos and I would already have the fucking game! But it's not. So no purchase for us. (At least, I would attempt to give a shit and try it myself if it didn't have a DRM)

And I have proof that quite a few are disappointed.

Findus, did you even look at the Jimquisition link DBThanatos posted? If not, please do. Really, he has some important points.

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"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablo3 open beta   Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:23 am

Major Cooke wrote:
Findus wrote:
Now you could say that you miss singleplayer offline and that since blizzard controls the servers they could shut it down at any point. You cant do anything about it. You would be right, but what you are missing is that if they did then they would instantly lose an immense amount of money from future customers which would lose respect and trust in them.
Hence why we think Blizzard can go fuck themselves.
Although that isnt realistic, since they have faced trouble for even having patch days in korea. If they were to put out the servers there would be so much suing on blizzard that the corporation would have serious trouble and would probably be barred from producing games in some countries (like korea) either by actual law or because people wouldnt buy thier products. Which means putting the servers permanently is something that just wont happen.

Also its important to note that it doesnt matter what you think if you havent actually bought the game. If you havent bought the game then all issues you think the game has are irrelevant to blizzard and you have already made your statement by not buying the game. Which is fine. What I dont get is how you can take a game so seriously that you havent bought. Those reasons dbt posted just arent enough to ever convince me personally because they are clear as crystal before the game has been released. Especially since this isnt 2000 and there are loads of games that are hack and slash in similar style as d2 and d3. While I would be disappointed if my favorite franchise didnt deliver the next generation like I wanted I wouldnt act as if I had been screwed over when I hadnt even bought the game.

As for drm online always being bad, thats not true if you arent affected by the cons of it. If you got access to the game at all times (except patch days like I have) and it stops hackers, dupers, cheaters and whatnot then its all fine for me. If you say that the drm is there only to stop piracy then you are ignoring the fact that it clearly stops those people as well which is the ONLY way to get a auctionhouse and an economy working in a game as massive as diablo3.

You could argue that since Im accepting x feature that is bad for some people on a game, Im contributing to some kind of global problem. But thats a really dumb argument. What you are missing is that if the game has x issue that keeps a certain type of players from buying the game, it wont affect those people because they havent bought the game. Also already there we have a significant force working against x issue which leads to games without x being produced or the issue x being worked at in existing games. The people unaffected by x issue shouldnt avoid the game if they arent affected by it, there is not point to complaining about an issue that doesnt affect you as if it did. Especially when the game has y and z extra features and has great gameplay in a way which no game had before for you personally. If so that game actually brings new things to the market which other games will have to add. Even those other games that uses the niche without x will be affected by z and y, that will lead to games adding z and y without x if they can.

Major Cooke wrote:

Findus, did you even look at the Jimquisition link DBThanatos posted? If not, please do. Really, he has some important points.
I looked at all of them, he doesnt bring anything new to the discussion. He just tries to make it more funny and basically say if you dont agree you are a problem. Then he argues that the problems of hackers and so on are blizzards problem. Well yeah, they solved it by having it online only and thats also the price they have to pay. Changing the game by cutting the singleplayer means that the price they have to pay is that less people will buy the game because its online only. However If you buy an online only game you are not entitled to be able to play offline on that game. Blizzard doesnt push the problem with hackers because they are absolutely not forcing you to pay for the game and play it. You made the decision when you paid for the game, you would accept that it was online only hosted by blizzard.There is no way you can say that you have to go through massive amount of problems on every single day because you have to be online since having a connection is a known minimum requirement for the game and by buying the game you are not instantly entitled to an offline version.

The way I see it is like this with the singleplayer offline issue.
Its as if a pizzeria stopped allowing transport of pizzas to your home. After which you complain about how you cannot have your pizza delivered at your house seeing as you happened to be bound by wheelchair. You call them and ask about it.
They say,"well its because we are no longer allowed to use pizza delivery because of tighter regulations. We can no longer offer the quality of pizzas we had before in home delivery compared to what we have here at the restaurant so we stopped doing it. When the quality is so diffrent there wasnt enough people that wanted home delivery and when people had home delivery, it sometimes ended up being worse. Because of that we got bad reviews. We do have better cheese and few more options though."
You say, "Nope, why cant I have home delivery, Ive bought pizzas here before? Isnt the regulations your problem?"
"Im sorry sir, we just cant anymore I know this might affect you seeing as you are bound by a wheelchair, but it just wasnt worth it considering there are other pizzerias with home delivery."
You say "fuck you."
You spent next weeks complaining about how you could no longer eat pizza where you wanted and how evil that pizzeria was when it stopped doing home delivery which it had before. Although there were already many pizzerias that had home delivery close by which continued to have it.

As for his lag issues, I havent actually seen any of those. My friend had some, but because d3 is so forgiving on lag that wasnt a problem for him at all, so as far as Ive seen hes exaggerating on that issue.

What issues does every online only game have? Problems at launch day and patch days. These arent only for mmos like some people erroneously have said, these are for ANY online only game hosted by the corporation that sold it. Although the launch day is something that seems to be avoidable it has never been avoided on any online only game Ive ever played from the beginning. That problem is clearly more complex than what the pedestrian thinks. While I would complain about if it had an effect on my gameplay, it never had.

Patch days might seem like something bad, but in the end it means maintenance on the game, improvements on the game, removal of bugs/glitches/exploits and many general improvements that in the long run will improve on anyones gaming experience. This is why people actually want patches to be applied but at the time time dont want the patching to take so long time to be applied. While I complain about it taking time, I can also see that it seems unreasonable to expect anything else at this point because patching online games take time and since the benefits of the patch days are very clear its impossible to avoid them.

What the jim dude seems to refer is that you are absolutely entitled to play that game at any given point which isnt true on an online only game hosted by any corp, you are entitled to be able to play it majority of the time with about one day per week as patch day because thats whats realistic. Everyone knows this, its what you have to pay in order for the game to be improved upon. If you dont like that you can just not buy the game. This isnt some industrial issue where the gamers suddenly has stopped caring about these issues. Its where you weigh the pros of them hosting it vs the cons before buying the game. If you dont actually buy the game you arent really entitled to have anything though.

Also I have to say that I really didnt like this jim guy because hes clearly using emotional manipulation which is scary even if I would agree with him. Things like truth and pride pop up instantly as I open up the clip. It says thank god for jim at the bottom and hes comparing his opponents arguments to smearing oneself with shit over and over again which obviously an emotional argument. Comparing the corporations to the evil characters of cartoons and the consumers to innocent little children is also pretty cheap.

While whining about issues is a good thing like jim said, I think still its futile to whine about the issues that everyone knows will be in the system the game is built around and the corporation in question is already working full speed to fix. Especially when its obvious that the corporation only stands to lose if those issues arent resolved.

Also I dont understand how people can feel that they are entitled to have the game they want made in a certain way even though they havent actually spend any money on it yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablo3 open beta   Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:17 pm

Quote :
If you started off playing offline in d2 what would often happen was that you later on changed your mind and wanted to go online with your char

Wrong. I have yet to ever find a game that I would prefer to play online when I have the opportunity. Am I a minority? Yeah. But keep on reading.

Quote :
Now you could say that you miss singleplayer offline and that since blizzard controls the servers they could shut it down at any point. You cant do anything about it. You would be right, but what you are missing is that if they did then they would instantly lose an immense amount of money from future customers which would lose respect and trust in them.

That's where you're completely blind. Of course blizzard wouldnt want to lose thousands of players because of a outage of sorts. No, they wouldnt. Same case where the PSN network didnt want to get tons of people angered because the PSN was down for I dont know how long when it was hacked. Point is is not that they say "oh i will shut down the server for a week and see what happens". Is the fact that SHIT HAPPENS. Do I need to say this again? Diablo 3 launch day. Oh sure, blizzard was ready for it.

Quote :
While I would be disappointed if my favorite franchise didnt deliver the next generation like I wanted I wouldnt act as if I had been screwed over when I hadnt even bought the game.

When did I say "I want my money back"? Or anything like that? So, suddenly, I have no right to complain about it? Oh, guess what? This is the internet, where I can have an opinion.

Quote :
Also I dont understand how people can feel that they are entitled to have the game they want made in a certain way even though they havent actually spend any money on it yet.

Again, you dont seem to understand. You think people should only talk whenever they have something in their hands? Then I guess you are unfamiliar with the concept "word of mouth".

Using your pizza example, I should shut up completely, and not warn to any of my other wheelchair buddies about that place not delivering home anymore, right? Because according to you, I have not spend money in the pizza they wont deliver, I have no reason to dislike it, and I should act like everything's fine with me. Well, NO. I said it before, I will go ahead and hate it all I want, because I can. Not because I spent money in it. Because I have all the right to do that when they are not doing something I want/need. You talk so much about money not being spent, then I dont get how you can even think that people should shut up.

I work for a gigantic monopoly in the USA (despite the fact that I dont live there and I, in no way get paid even what the minimum wage is in USA), and I get to see first hand all the complaints people send. What does the company do with that? In the small scale they can, due to the small amount of people they have to take care of that, they try to make the customer happy. Even potential customers. Why? Because even if we are talking about a five dollar payment, multiply that for a thousand people that is unhappy, and that's 5000 USD.

Im not saying blizzard should change their ways. But what Im saying is that your point of view of "you should shut up because you havent bought anything" is completely wrong, considering you also talk so much about how it is a corporation and is all about financial retribution.

Following your ideals, then there should be no social revolutions in the countries, right? Because everyone that is unhappy with something, should just shut up. I see a person get brutally murdered by some dude in a online video, I should not say anything, because Im not the one murdered, or because I didnt get any blood stain in my clothes. Right?

Yeah, a pretty exaggerated example, but this is for you to see how absurd that idea of "doesnt affect you, you shouldnt care" is.


EDIT: ANd back to the point, Diablo 3 was announced since ages ago. It was only until, what, 6 months prior release that they say "oh, yeah, and is online only too". Well, Im sorry for being angered of the gigantic broken glass they want to shove down my throat. Yeah, that's sarcasm.

Again, if they announced it before as some sort of MMORPG I would be fine and dandy. The fact they "forgot" to say it before is what pisses me off.

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Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Diablo3 open beta   Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:06 am

Even BrotherLaz is bitching about it in the headlines!

BrotherLaz wrote:
[03.JUN.2012] WELCOME DIABLO III TRAIN WRECK SURVIVORS

Diablo III is imbalanced, lacks replay value and feels like a cheap money grab. This might be a very good time to download Median XL again and cleanse the taint from your memories. Welcome back.

And the community you remember still exists! Head on over to the forum for Median XL and the third party spinoffs that are being developed.

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"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablo3 open beta   Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:44 pm

I was talking to one of my coworkers, and he told me too, that he doesnt feel the depth of the game.

I honestly dont think is such a surprise that some players will find their peace with a previous version of the game (i.e. Diablo 2 vs Diablo 3). That's what happened to me with Postal 3.

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"02:37 p.m. - DBThanatos runs around like a little girl"
"Because now, all you see in AEoD was either ripped, processed and/or coded by the AEoD team (or direct contributions FOR AEoD). It might be a ripfest, but is OUR ripfest." -DBT about AEoD v6
"Seven sixteenths of one inch: That's the distance you'd have to move your pinky in order to not sound like an idiot." - maddox
"What I talk about is Doom, because in the end, Doom is all that counts." - Stephen King
"In offline gaming we trust" -DBT & MC


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PostSubject: Re: Diablo3 open beta   Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:43 pm

Or kinda like how I feel about Doom 3 and Doom 2, ironically enough.

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"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablo3 open beta   Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:31 pm

One of their plans, the Auction Houses, has put the hurt on D3. Not to mention, they at least smartened up enough to not include a DRM on PS3/360.

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"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablo3 open beta   Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:38 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/19/xbox-one-drm-second-hand-restrictions-abandoned At least Microsoft was sensible enough to destroy the DRM...

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"well, im not too sure. I mean, we made money, but im not able to wipe my ass with $100 bills yet." - DBThanatos
"And one for Bobo the Space Monkey!" - Postal Dude
"My grandmother could beat the game if she saved as much as you do!" - Postal Dude
"Float... They aaaaaall float! And when you're down here with me, fat boy! YOU... float... too!" - Pennywise, the Dancing Clown
"In Offline Gaming We Trust" - DBT & MC
"That truck is fucked." - FPS Russia
Spetsnaz. When the only way to kill a terrorist is with a back-flipping Apache attack.
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PostSubject: Blizzard service   Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:08 am

cheers Althout I did not get any particular service from Blizzard. i do think the players on the forum are pretty helpful. I have get several problems solved with their help.
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